tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post3736965122076014078..comments2023-10-26T06:29:39.824-07:00Comments on The Magnes Zionist: Some Grounds for OptimismJerry Haberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15173892714754718716noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-91006793666713118342010-06-04T18:12:18.044-07:002010-06-04T18:12:18.044-07:00Arens is forgetting one small detail. His math is ...Arens is forgetting one small detail. His math is wrong because there would be 3 million Arabs out of 9 million residents and they have an advantage in youth so that within a few years, that 33% would become about 40%. Anyway, if they vote in a bloc or their representatives vote in a bloc, Gaza will also be inducted into Israel very shortly thereafter.<br /><br />With all due respect to all the people who are thrilled about this, including you, the only real solution remains the Clinton Parameters and variations thereof.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-58991546633289485522010-06-04T13:54:57.038-07:002010-06-04T13:54:57.038-07:00and the reason why the palestinians on the west ba...and the reason why the palestinians on the west bank would be willing to see citizenship under a zionist govt as a permanent solution to their current status of non citizenship with some self government over their internal affairs with voting for the govt only by palestinian arabs is..<br /><br />why would any palestinian nationalist in his right mind not see the arens "plam" as anything other than "final status" = permanent domination (as 30%) of a jewish state "<br /><br />you may know jewish studies but your knowledge of politics is zero You certainly know no history. Zionists in the 1930s proposed a zionist autonomous entity within a confederation with the arab world and it was rejected. Why would a palestinian nationalist accept a worse outcome know and see that as preferable to a 2 state solution. I cant think of a conceivable reason why.<br /><br />man you live in fantasy worldAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-69862528394937307192010-06-03T01:09:41.264-07:002010-06-03T01:09:41.264-07:00It is refreshing to see something like this, but I...It is refreshing to see something like this, but I wouldn't call Arens's idea particularly progressive. It serves the interests of the "Greater Israel" movement. Period. That said, it is much simpler than a drawn-out process of talking to agree to talk about provisional parameters to another talk about implementing the parameters etc etc. That way has led to failure and void (see, Annapolis), clearly.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14536579820036423783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-78442508512904725182010-06-02T14:07:56.640-07:002010-06-02T14:07:56.640-07:00After reading Moshe Arens' article in Haaretz ...After reading Moshe Arens' article in Haaretz it is clear that some fuzzy math are at play here.<br /><br />According to CIA World Factbook the West Bank has a total population of 2,514,845 inhabitants, and that is without including Israeli settlers which are part of Israeli statistics (7.5 millions).<br /><br />Adding the 1.5 million Israeli Arabs (20% of Israel) you get 4.0 millions Arab citizens in this 'new' Israel. They will make up 40% of the total population. Furthermore, this scenario makes no mention of the fate of the 1.5 million Gazans.<br /><br />The question this scenario raise is the following: what kind of Israel will be offered to those 2.5 millions Palestinians? The one already offered to the 1.5 million Arab Israelis where they are second class citizens, or a new one where Israel is the state of all its citizens. The latter will be unacceptable and the former will be the end of the Jewish state.<br /><br />Judging by the recent Flotilla Incident I don't see how Israelis would be prepared to commit political suicide!Surcoufnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-16381004395614703382010-06-02T11:17:45.487-07:002010-06-02T11:17:45.487-07:00The prerequisite for a genuine Peace Process is ei...The prerequisite for a genuine Peace Process is either full unconditional withdrawal and removal of settlements to pre-1967 borders with minor adjustments in Jerusalem or an extension of full Israeli citizenship to all Palestinian residents within the borders of Mandatory Palestine. Only in one of these scenarios can a process of reconciliation proceed on the basis of some semblance of Justice and Equality. <br /><br />By leaving Gaza out of the equation, Arens makes his proposal really quite insulting and meaningless. If Israel can absorb 1.5 million 'Muslim' citizens whom it will marginalize and keep the Gazans in their open air prison, what's the difference between that and the status quo?BTZalelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10209533264810025809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-73901467948671601762010-06-02T08:59:02.445-07:002010-06-02T08:59:02.445-07:00Seen from abroad ( outside Israel ) it seems odd t...Seen from abroad ( outside Israel ) it seems odd that a man from Likud, supposedly in the right of israeli spectrum, comes up with such innovative ideas. I too have found myself wondering for some time whether the one-state would not be the only solution left ( despite my belonging to MPPM the portuguese pro-palestian movement that engages in the two-state option ).<br />The only problem, as you say, is that leaving Gaza out isn't really a complete "one"-state solution. But it sure poses grounds for optimism.<br />By the way: my movement ( and 18 others ) will be heldind today ( in 2 hours ) a demonstration in front of the israeli embassy to Portugal, here in Lisbon, against the ravaging of the foltilla to Gaza end to end the blockade ! I'm leaving home now to participate.Devirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01155524549915190477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-23062820516108927932010-06-02T04:02:49.943-07:002010-06-02T04:02:49.943-07:00I was waiting to read the part of this post where ...I was waiting to read the part of this post where I would disagree with you on, but alas I found none. Oh well, there's always next time.Anonymoushttp://(optional)noreply@blogger.com