tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post5175037999323025321..comments2023-10-26T06:29:39.824-07:00Comments on The Magnes Zionist: Hillels Should Engage, Not Boycott, Jewish Voice for PeaceJerry Haberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15173892714754718716noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-64690749156150121452010-12-21T00:59:13.982-08:002010-12-21T00:59:13.982-08:00I'm confused by Bacci40's claim that Rabbi...I'm confused by Bacci40's claim that Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb isn't a rabbi. <br /><br />Even the Jewish Virtual Library, which describes itself as an 'american-israeli enterprise' and surely is no anti-zionist sympathizer, describes her ordination as a rabbi, including the support of her teachers Rabbis Zalman Schachter, Everett Gendler and Shlomo Carlebach. So that little comment is a little out of left field.<br /><br />On top of that...is Bacci40 really dissing Baruch Spinoza? Really?jakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16760192040118582945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-26637796141473222852010-12-20T23:17:47.396-08:002010-12-20T23:17:47.396-08:00bacci40, I fail to see any problem with Rabbi Gott...bacci40, I fail to see any problem with Rabbi Gottlieb's response. I don't think she is paskening halakha; I think she is interpreting Talmudic sources in a perfectly legitimate and time-honored fashion (for a rabbi and a darshan). I have heard my own rabbi do a lot worse.Jerry Haberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15173892714754718716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-61522495271624746992010-12-19T16:17:08.544-08:002010-12-19T16:17:08.544-08:00jerry, did you read ms lynn gottleib's respons...jerry, did you read ms lynn gottleib's response to hillel?<br /><br />would love to see your defense of how she uses the germarah to support her sideAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-11281347571280973512010-12-18T20:08:54.830-08:002010-12-18T20:08:54.830-08:00update on jvp's response to hillel
this is fr...update on jvp's response to hillel<br /><br />this is from ms lynn gottleib (she aint no rabbi)<br /><br />As a target of Hillel’s effort to silence dissent before selective divestment and BDS arose on the horizon as a tactic to end Israeli occupation of Palestinian land, and as someone who remembers when speaking to Palestinians was considered heresy, when supporting a two state solution was heresy, when protesting settlement expansion was heresy, when supporting Goldstone’s call for an investigation of Operation Cast Lead was considered heresy, it seems as if Hillel, once again, is failing to understand the positive contribution of nonviolent dissent to militarism and occupation to rabbinic and Jewish life.<br /><br />By silencing dissent in broad and highly idiosyncratic language, Hillel is exiling thousands of young Jewish activists to life outside our own community. As for boycott, it has an honored place in Jewish life, especially when it is used to express non-cooperation with actions that are harmful to the public.<br /><br />"Whoever is able to protest against the transgressions of his own family and does not do so is held responsible and liable for the transgressions of his family. Whoever is able to protest against the transgressions of the people of his community and does not do so is liable for the transgressions of his community. Whoever is able to protest against the transgressions of the entire world and does not do so is liable for the transgressions of the entire world. (Babylonian Talmud Shabbat 54b) R. Zera said to R. Simon: Did you rebuke those of the Exilarch’s house? He replied: they will not take it from me. R. Zera said: Even so, you should rebuke them. (Shabbat 55a and cf. Tanhuma Tazria parag. 9).<br /><br />It has been further been taught: "It is forbidden to sell them weapons or accessories to weapons, nor should one sharpen weapons for them. One may not sell them blocks or neck-ands placed on prisoners or ropes or iron chains-neither to idolators (Romans) nor to Cuthites (a sect of Judaism). R. Nahman said in the name of Rabbah b. Avuha: Just as they ruled that it forbidden to sell (these items) to an idolator so is it forbidden to them to an Israelite who is suspected of selling them to an idolator (Roman). The rabbis taught: It is forbidden to sell them shields, but others say that shields may be sold to them. (They were used for decorative purposes) Said R. Nahman in the name of Rabba b. Avuha: The law agrees with the others. Yerushalmi 15b-16a The text describes a form of boycott in order to avoid cooperating with Roman military rule, even if one is making a profit. Noncooperation with acts that violate human rights in an ancient and honored form of religious action.<br /><br />Finally, the Jewish American community supported the farmer workers’ boycott of grapes and the boycott of Nestle products because they believed in the universal principle of human rights which both boycotts supported. Why is selective divestment or other forms of consumer boycott different because it is directed at Israeli violations of human rights in the form of illegal land seizure?<br />Especially when these violations are being committed in our name? Rather than a form of delegitimization of Israel, the very act of protest by supporting selective divestment and public protest in the media and on the street is upholding the democracy that those who love Israel claim to cherish and promote."<br /><br />so jerry, tell us again why hillel should engage with such people...who use the gemorah very much like those who can be found on jew hate websites?e<br /><br />nice tryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-35155842828687914842010-12-15T19:47:06.435-08:002010-12-15T19:47:06.435-08:00"After all, I don't look forward to the d..."After all, I don't look forward to the day when a thousand Jewish JVPers dress up as Barukh Spinoza and picket Hillels on campuses throughout the countries."<br /><br />dont think you have to fear that at all jerry...there will never come a day when jvp has close to a thousand college aged members.<br /><br />and why should an organization that is engaged in bringing youth closer to their jewish roots,engage with one that wishes to deny those roots?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-55138351436976394812010-12-15T17:47:37.702-08:002010-12-15T17:47:37.702-08:00cont'd. I am now involved in founding a local ...cont'd. I am now involved in founding a local JVP chapter along with a professor from the same campus who co-wrote the offending op-ed and has been continually vilified by the Jewish community on campus for her pro-Palestinian activism. <br /><br />Recently I tried to join the board of the local UJC or whatever they call it now. I was interrogated about my political views, and told that I would not be an appropriate candidate at this time. And this is in a very liberal college town.<br /><br />At this point, I've about had it with the organized Jewish community. I lived in Israel for several years and have tried to be a part of Jewish life in the U.S. It's not worth it.Aronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00316067140057485170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-41205550551121988862010-12-15T17:39:40.589-08:002010-12-15T17:39:40.589-08:00Jerry,
This is sad, but not surprising. Not muc...Jerry, <br /><br />This is sad, but not surprising. Not much has changed at Hillel since I worked for them on a campus as program coordinator several years ago. <br /><br />I was there at the beginning of the 2nd Intifada, and was very uncomfortable with the expectation that I should be directing and supporting students in Israel 'advocacy.' I was nearly lynched (professionally speaking) for writing an op-ed in a local newspaper on behalf of an inter-faith peace and justice group. The local board brought in a rep from the national organization to clarify the official stance. This was before BDS and there was nothing in anything I said or wrote on campus or off that implied that Israel should not exist. <br /><br />I tried to argue as you do that engaging Jewish students requires a more open-minded policy.Aronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00316067140057485170noreply@blogger.com