tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post5746951686900703173..comments2023-10-26T06:29:39.824-07:00Comments on The Magnes Zionist: The Times on the Gaza War CrimesJerry Haberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15173892714754718716noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-33836040008323033102009-03-26T05:32:00.000-07:002009-03-26T05:32:00.000-07:00BTW, Salo Baron invented the term lachrymose versi...BTW, <A HREF="http://www.nytimes.com/1989/11/26/obituaries/salo-w-baron-94-scholar-of-jewish-history-dies.html" REL="nofollow">Salo Baron</A> invented the term <I>lachrymose version of Jewish history</I> in order to deride a certain class of Jewish historiographers.<BR/><BR/>I saw the following (false) claim in the June 1918 edition of The Menorah Journal. On page 191 Al Weinberg claims in <I>The Enemy Within Ourselves</I> that [the Jew's] history has been a nightmare of pogrom and persecution.<BR/><BR/>I am not sure if that is the first reference to the pogrom and persecution version of Jewish history, but it is hardly the only place I have seen it.<BR/><BR/>I just combined the two phrases.Joachim Martillohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00121944171459090792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-46885171467900759022009-03-24T03:58:00.000-07:002009-03-24T03:58:00.000-07:00I referenced Robert Lindsay's blog entry on Stalin...I referenced Robert Lindsay's blog entry on Stalin's alleged anti-Semitism and explicitly stated that I did not necessarily agree with all points Lindsay made.<BR/><BR/>The history is very complex, but we should try to understand it because it is part of the origin of the world in which we live.<BR/><BR/>In his personal life Stalin was certainly not an anti-Semite. A lot of the anti-Jewish policies that are ascribed to Stalin seem to have originated with Jews that were close to him and that were trying to prove utter fidelity to communist ideology.<BR/><BR/>I have the impression that Stalin became suspicious of all his Jewish associates after the founding of the State of Israel, but we need more access to Soviet archives to understand completely the period from the end of Stalin's rule until the collapse of the Soviet Union.<BR/><BR/>We do know that some of the absolute pinnacle of the Soviet elite discovered their Jewish roots after 1991 even though their nationality papers gave no indication of Jewish ancestry.Joachim Martillohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00121944171459090792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-49383444387876418912009-03-23T10:22:00.000-07:002009-03-23T10:22:00.000-07:00Oh, I was just wondering... One of Martillo's post...Oh, I was just wondering... One of Martillo's posts starts with the following sentence "Because the lachrymose pogrom and persecution version of Jewish history..." and develops the idea that there where no trace of antisemism under Stalin's rule. Yes, why not? All the suffering was just an illusion. Anything goes, these days. The new historians did a necessary job to debunk a lot of myths about sionism but I think it gave a special breed of self-proclaimed historians the permission to rewrite the whole story from scratch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-4422122092910668892009-03-23T06:56:00.000-07:002009-03-23T06:56:00.000-07:00Mike, the only comments I don't post are either th...Mike, the only comments I don't post are either the usual suspects (Viagra ads, requests for donations, etc.), or vicious stuff, of which there is almost none.<BR/><BR/>As for Joachim, we don't always agree, but we often do, and I certainly haven't seen anything he says qualify as anti-semitism. That is a rough accusation, but some people say it about me.<BR/><BR/>And Kathy, I put that blogroll up over a year ago, when I just started, but there are many other blogs I would put up if I had the time and patience. I feel guilty when I see the Magnes Zionist on somebody else's blogroll but not theirs on mine. If I ever get a chance to breathe, I will update that, as well as the top posts.<BR/><BR/>As you all can see, I am amataeurish blogger, for which I apologize.Jerry Haberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15173892714754718716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-64919746768202830562009-03-22T20:30:00.000-07:002009-03-22T20:30:00.000-07:00Mike - Magnes did not endorse or site any of Marti...Mike - Magnes did not endorse or site any of Martillo's writings in this post. He also doesn't list him in his blogroll (unlike Phil Weiss, who I wish wouldn't). It's up to him whether to ban him or not.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04063683801599907243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-44788363790528770522009-03-22T02:40:00.000-07:002009-03-22T02:40:00.000-07:00Jerry, do we need another crazy Jew hater like thi...Jerry, do we need another crazy Jew hater like this Joachim Martillo? Did you really read the stuff he writes on his blog ? The terminology has changed ("Jewish Zionists" instead of «Jews") but the old anti-Semitic hatred doesn’t. It only evolves. There is something you seem a bit unaware of. It’s the demonization that’s going on in some circles about Israel and the Jews altogether. Of course, with their crazy politics towards the Palestinian, the Israelis do all they can to enhance and amplify this anti-Jewish sentiment. Nevertheless, we should be aware to distinguish people we can and must talk to and people who really hate us and use the Palestinian cause to perpetuate the old anti-Jewish sentiment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-35643836603466793842009-03-21T13:22:00.000-07:002009-03-21T13:22:00.000-07:00Perhaps the parable of Pete and Paul should instea...Perhaps the parable of Pete and Paul should instead read that Pete grabbed Paul's garment claiming that God had given it to him, and that Pete was not a bit interested in sharing the garment with Paul but couldn't wrench the damn thing entirely from his grasp, and that while Pete spoke often as though he was willing to give Paul his freedom in exchange for certain concessions on Paul's part, whenever Paul agreed to those concessions Pete merely made ever increasing demands.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-83625868703070484702009-03-20T16:59:00.000-07:002009-03-20T16:59:00.000-07:00I put my own version of the fable up at The Magnes...I put my own version of the fable up at <A HREF="http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2009/03/magnes-zionist-times-on-gaza-war-crimes.html" REL="nofollow">The Magnes Zionist: The Times on the Gaza War Crimes</A>.Joachim Martillohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00121944171459090792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-44068297116333787962009-03-20T11:55:00.000-07:002009-03-20T11:55:00.000-07:00I'm certain a Netanyu-Lieberman government will sh...I'm certain a Netanyu-Lieberman government will show all these charges are false and lies instigated by left wing by provocateurs in the Army, and then things will return to the most moral army in the world continuing to act as morally as it did in Gaza despite all the antisemites and Arab lovers who claim otherwise.<BR/>-PloniAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-40861307679916553222009-03-20T09:46:00.000-07:002009-03-20T09:46:00.000-07:00"This is very, very different from my usual experi..."This is very, very different from my usual experience. I have been doing reserve duty for 12 years, and it was always an issue how to avoid causing civilian injuries."<BR/><BR/>Somebody always says this when the US or one of its close allies is caught committing war crimes. You know, we're normally so moral and wonderful, and isn't it awful how This One Time we really did something bad. Now I suppose this guy is telling the truth about his own personal experience, but I don't think that if you look at either American or Israeli history that one has any right to be surprised when they commit atrocities. <BR/><BR/>DonaldAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com