tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post7217981528464695792..comments2023-10-26T06:29:39.824-07:00Comments on The Magnes Zionist: Another Argument Against the Two State SolutionJerry Haberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15173892714754718716noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-20753853596932522362008-06-12T06:38:00.000-07:002008-06-12T06:38:00.000-07:00Singapore and Malaysia have an unequal and messy t...Singapore and Malaysia have an unequal and messy two state solution. The difference in government transparency and prosperity is astonishing and effectively based on the ethnic differences between overseas Chinese and Malays.<BR/>Yet it works, with neither being a democracy as we understand the word, one being a secular state whose god is capitalism and the other a state whose official religion is Islam and whose Chinese settlers are dhimmi.<BR/>Let Ramalah be Kuala Lumpur,and Tel Aviv be Singapore.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>PloniAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-69696688185580016822008-06-11T11:35:00.000-07:002008-06-11T11:35:00.000-07:00The problem with the idea that "2-statism" will sa...The problem with the idea that "2-statism" will save the Palestinians from being oppressed and exploited by the Jews is that their state will be completely unviable economically, regardless of what borders it will have (i.e. even if they get everything up to the Green Line). The Palestinians will still be dependent on Israel, just as the 'proud, independent' Gazans are under HAMAS rule. Sure, they can try to build a totally independent economic infrastructure, but this will prove to be prohibitively expensive, i.e. building separate ports, electricity generation, water works, etc.<BR/>One of the main points that Amira Hass made against the Oslo Agreements is that they were simply a way for Israel to continue the occupation on the cheap. Free crossing the border with Israel was given to special VIP's who had the right connections, you probably heard about Arafat's Israeli advisor Yossi Ginnosar whom they called "Mr Five Percent" who got huge payoffs for Israeli goods that went into the Palestinian territories .<BR/><BR/>I am reading Benny Morris' book "1948" about the War of Independence, and he points that the Palestinians made no move to set up an autonomous self-governmental authority during the Mandate period EVEN THOUGH THE BRITISH ENCOURAGED THEM TO DO SO. The Jews did do it, being government through the Jewish Agency Executive which also had power to tax the Jewish population. The Arabs never wanted to fund their own services from self-taxation, their primitive (as compared to the Jews) administration was financed by British handouts. The situation today is no different, the Palestinian Authority gets the majority of the money for their budget comes from handouts from the EU and USA (not their Arab brethren, interestingly enough). So you see, there never will be a really economically independent Palestinian government, and so Israel will always have a tremendous amount of power over them, whether they are nominally "independent" or not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-84772460752111504652008-06-11T09:05:00.000-07:002008-06-11T09:05:00.000-07:00Ah, but I didn't say either that I was for the one...Ah, but I didn't say either that I was for the one state solution (I am not), or that the same argument couldn't be made against the one state solution (it can, and you did)<BR/><BR/>In fact, bk132, we are in total agreement on this one. One of the reasons I am for the two state solution is because Palestinians would be dominated by the Jews in one state. Why should Palestinians, who deserve of a state of their own, have to power share with millions of Jews? Even if there is parity de jure, it is hard to imagine that there will be de facto.<BR/> <BR/>In fact, any solution will probably have this problem. A federation of several states, including Jordan and maybe Lebanon and Syria, could be the answer. But that requires more thought.Jerry Haberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15173892714754718716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-50930724373692477562008-06-11T02:02:00.000-07:002008-06-11T02:02:00.000-07:00Ilan Pappe and Uri Avnery had a debate a few month...Ilan Pappe and Uri Avnery had a debate a few months ago about this very issue, Pappe wanting the so-called "one-state solution" and Avnery the proposed "two-state" one. Interestingly enough, Pappe had the same idea as you, with one state everything would be peachy keen, a democracy and everyone would get along famously. But then Avnery put a monkey-wrench into the works and said that since the Jew are so smart, they would end up dominating this unitary state and continue to oppress and exploit the Palestinians, whom he presumably feels can't take care of themselves.<BR/>Now, if you hold like many of your fellow progressives MJ Rosenberg Phil Weiss, and Richard Silverstein (among others), saying that the Jews today control the United States (Tom Friedman also stated this a few years ago), where the Jews are less than 3% of the population, then how hard would it be for the Jews to control the unitary Palestinian state?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com