tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post8014325209491577401..comments2023-10-26T06:29:39.824-07:00Comments on The Magnes Zionist: On Anti-Palestinianism and Anti-SemitismJerry Haberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15173892714754718716noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-27312331121775402072018-07-10T08:58:32.007-07:002018-07-10T08:58:32.007-07:00Mr. Haber,
This argument is sheer nonsense. BDS ...Mr. Haber, <br /><br />This argument is sheer nonsense. BDS and radical anti-Zionists believe that only one people should be stripped of its right to self-determination: the Jews. Anyone saying that Spain which was built on the ethnic cleansing of the Arabs and the Jews has the right to exist, but not Israel, discriminates against the Jews. Being anti-Zionist is not anti-Semitic. George Steiner is anti-Zionist and there is nothing wrong with this. However, wanting to destroy Israel is definitely discriminatory. It might not be wittingly anti-Semitic but it smells very bad...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01541098822502769604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-76392690507667110012016-06-08T14:43:20.010-07:002016-06-08T14:43:20.010-07:00Calling Palestinians Jew haters is, indeed, bigote...Calling Palestinians Jew haters is, indeed, bigoted and anti-Palestinian, in particular. I agree and wish more folks got this. But the equation of anti-Semitism with anti-Zionism doesn't commit this particular form of bigotry, precisely because it takes the Jew-hating out of anti-Semitism, instead reducing it to a political stance. <br /><br />It's sort of a dilemma: if 'anti-Semite' means Jew hater, then it's a bigoted epithet but is not automatically applied to Palestinians; if, on the other hand, it means (or could mean) anti-Zionist then it IS automatically applied to Palestinians but is NOT a bigoted epithet.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05899139581119583812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-1803642447884940782016-05-07T00:13:08.953-07:002016-05-07T00:13:08.953-07:00My general rule about bigotry is simple. Accusati...My general rule about bigotry is simple. Accusation against Zionism from the list of Antisemetic accusations are Antisemetic, accusations against Zionism that aren't from that list are not. I'll use your examples. When one talks about Zionism manipulating world powers with shadowy means that's Antisemitism. When one talks about Zionism producing an overly macho culture focusing on homoeroticism that's pure Anti-Zionism because Jews weren't traditionally accused of that. If someone hates Israelis / Zionists because they eat too much watermelon and are lazy that's not Antisemitism. If someone hates Israelis / Zionists because Israel challenges independent thinking and tricks Christian youth into evil that is. <br /><br /> There are people who think Barbados should be part of a broader West Indies Federation, there are people who think it should still be part of the UK, and there are people who think it should be independent like it is. The issues here are more complex than they are with Israel. Yet there are 0 protestors in Europe and America about this issue. There is no BDS movement. Rather the world accepts that the status of Barbados should be determined by the people of Barbados and leaves them to decide on the best course of action. The people of Barbados would welcome input from the British Labor party yet the Labor party is mostly indifferent. The people of Israel have almost no connection to the British Labor party and don't want their input yet the Labor party feels a need to get involved. Of course that demands an explanation. The Israeli / Palestinian conflict is for most people a stupid tribal conflict involving people they have nothing to do with over a small piece of land. It deserves the same level of attention as other tribal conflicts involving people that no one has any involvement with. Total ignorance or indifference is the natural state. There is nothing anti-Palestian in treating Palestinians the same way most multi-state ethnic minorities in most countries are treated. Believing that what the Jews do is of universal importance is Antisemitism. <br /><br />First of all contrary to BDS propaganda boycotting is a regulated activity in the USA and in most European countries. It is not an activity that organizations are large groups of people are free to carry out however they want against whomever they want. Liberals in particular in the USA were instrumental in banning the boycotts by the White Citizens Councils even though they too were defended on free speech grounds. There is little difference between being opposed to the operation of black businesses and opposition to the operation of Jewish/Israeli businesses. And before you talk about politics vs. racism, southern racists were happy to attack blacks for being scalawags one could make an intellectually defensible case for Jim Crow on purely political grounds. That doesn't change the fact that southern anti-black activism was seen as racism and not a passionate federalism especially by people with the same beliefs as those who are anti-Israeli. <br /><br />The objection that people like me have with the BDS movement is not particular tactics though those are often quite obnoxious. It is the total refusal of BDSers to just treat Israel like you would any other country. It is the complete insanity and disproportionality of the BDS demands. Japan is one of the most racist countries on the planet. No one suggests replacing the population of Japan with Chinese or Koreans as a way to handle that racism. No one suggests a total boycott of Japan until Koreans living in Japan have full social equality (and they are far more discriminated against than Israeli Arabs). No one suggests disbanding Japan and merging it in with China. No one suggests that because there is a little Tokyo in LA that the Japanese aren't really a people and a nation.... CD-Hosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00304535091189153224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-24773264013672066882016-05-06T11:15:17.117-07:002016-05-06T11:15:17.117-07:00Jerry, don't where else to leave this question...Jerry, don't where else to leave this question, so here goes: Have you written about Joan Peters' work anywhere on your site? And, if so, could you direct me to it?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01541499258177563024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-5228769171505109612016-04-17T19:21:34.541-07:002016-04-17T19:21:34.541-07:00Btw, there is something tongue twisting about anti...Btw, there is something tongue twisting about anti- Palestinianist. It is accurate, but it'd be nice to come up with something easier to say. Donaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12097924170959207117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-23858699657930359002016-04-17T19:19:25.691-07:002016-04-17T19:19:25.691-07:00I figured this out a few years ago? It's one...I figured this out a few years ago? It's one of those things that is obvious if you can manage to step outside the framework where the only form of bigotry one needs to worry about on this issue is anti-semitism. Anti- semitism exists, of course, but racism against Palestinians is so deeply entrenched in discussions on this subject I don't think people are aware of the problem. And yes, I even noticed the unconscious racism that says antiZionism is automatically grounds for suspicion, because why would anyone think Palestinians have the basic right to live in their own homeland?<br /><br />And so what one sees are people, usually moderately liberal Zionists, earnestly discussing just where to draw the line on when people are guilty of antisemitism. It never enters their heads to wonder if they might be using racist logic to decide who is guilty.Donaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12097924170959207117noreply@blogger.com