tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post8539825950115800158..comments2023-10-26T06:29:39.824-07:00Comments on The Magnes Zionist: Meron Benvenisti’s Doom and GloomJerry Haberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15173892714754718716noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-62818307641533475702012-10-08T12:51:45.976-07:002012-10-08T12:51:45.976-07:00He's now done it again, in Hebrew only so far....He's now done it again, in Hebrew only so far.<br /><br />http://www.haaretz.co.il/magazine/1.1835834YMedadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14333122797414935958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-1647514242223461982008-08-22T03:01:00.000-07:002008-08-22T03:01:00.000-07:00Bar kochba, it's not true that Benveniste in this ...Bar kochba, it's not true that Benveniste in this column absolves Palestinians of responsibility -- he talks himself of Palestinian infighting.<BR/><BR/>As for why there wasn't a Palestinian state, the definitive guide is Rashid Khalidi's The Iron Cage, which also does not spare the Palestinians from criticism, especially the upper middle and intellectual classes that abandoned the poorer Palestinians. Benveniniste, in one of his nastier moods, threw that back at Said's family, after Said criticized him.<BR/>But of course, your memory is highly selective, and your comparison between the British and Israeli occupations laughable. After all, the Zionists always had long term territorial objectives that was at the heart of their activities, and the British did not. The Palestinians are striking at the core of Zionism by holding out for their own state -- nothing like that with the British.<BR/><BR/>I am glad you didn't make the dumb comment that most people do, that the British favored the Palestinians. That was true of some British at certain times, but on the whole, without the British there would be no Israel.<BR/><BR/>I haven't read Morris's book, but he is, as you know, a bigot when it comes to all things Arab, and I am looking forward to seeing the other views.<BR/><BR/>And waving the Arafat flag is stupid. If the Palestinian leader was a combination of Nelson Mandela, David ben Gurion, and King Solomon, he would still be under the thumb of the Israelis.<BR/><BR/>Finally, your point about economic inequality is well taken. The Jews have a state and the Palestinians don't, because the Jews outfinessed the Palestinians -- and their so-called Arab brethren. If you want to talk about survival of the fittest,well there you have it. There is no arguing with success.<BR/><BR/>But there are only two problems with this.<BR/><BR/>1) Israelis, and Jews (and, for that matter, all people) like to see themselves as the tiny David that, against all odds, won a state. They weren't. They were -- and are -- the Goliathes, and in this world, Goliath wins. <BR/><BR/>2) The Palestinians have lost, but they aren't going anywhere. I have a rightwing friend who is constantly worried about Israel. I say to him, "What, are you nuts? Do you think that the Palestinians can seriously inflict damage upon Israel." His answer: "No -- but they can make Jews bleed."<BR/><BR/>The point is not who is responsible for the matzav. Bar Kokhba, you and I love to point fingers. But the real issue is what happens from here. And how long can a country keep another people in a permanent occupation. Annex the West Bank and Gaza, and be done with it. Give them citizenship. After all, according to you, they can't run themselves anyway. So in the one state, they will continue to be subordinate.Jerry Haberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15173892714754718716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-29432610830943964352008-08-22T01:10:00.000-07:002008-08-22T01:10:00.000-07:00All I can think of is a lackwit-sounding "Oh wow!"...All I can think of is a lackwit-sounding "Oh wow!" ...I being the person lacking in wit, expressing appreciation of this declaration. I think: what if Sari Nusseibam's grandkids grow up walled off from neighboring Jews? What a heartrending possibility.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7675600882597316438.post-75063776326154679062008-08-21T23:06:00.000-07:002008-08-21T23:06:00.000-07:00This is one of Benveniste's most pathetic columns....This is one of Benveniste's most pathetic columns. Sometimes he makes some good points but he really turns into a crybaby in this one. "The Poor Palestinians"...everyone is responisible for their situation, except they themselves. He laments that there isn't enough "Arab ethic solidarity". Naturally, that is OUR fault, just like we are responsible for all the problems in the world.<BR/><BR/>It is the "progressives" like Benveniste who brought the Palestinians to their current situation. This was because they insisted that the only "solution" to the Palestinian problem was to bring cut-throat assassin Arafat to rule them. As if the TWO civil wars he ignited (in Jordan and Lebanon) leading to tens of thousands of dead wasn't enough to warn people like Benvenisite that there was something wrong with Arafat and that he had no interest in building a state infrastructure.<BR/><BR/>But it is all written there in history. During the British Mandate period, the British encourage BOTH the Jews and Arabs to set up autonomous administrative structures. The Jews did so, through the Jewish Agency. It formed an embryonic state infrastructure which collected taxes and set up a civil society that worked. The British repeatedly pressed the Arabs to do the same. THEY REFUSED. They said "why should we take responsibilty and tax ourselves when the British will run everthing for us AND PAY FOR IT. We just sit back and let them do everything." (Benny Morris discusses this in his book "1948").<BR/>Today it is the same situation. Arafat refused to set up a true civil society and state infrastructure, instead he set up a large number of "security organs" that spied on each other which sucked up the part of the money that was given to the Palestinian Authority by the US and EU -the rest was diverted into the Swiss bank accounts of the PA's leaders-(the other Arab sates have always refused to help fund the PA-why should they when the "dhimmis" are willing to do it?).<BR/>Now I know what you are going to say-"how could they set up a civil society and state infrastructure when they are under occupation? THE JEWS SUCCEEDED TO DO IT UNDER BRITISH OCCUPATION-and recall that whereas the PA had total control of most of the Arab populated areas of Judea/Samaria and Gaza with their own "security forces", the Jews were completely under the thumb of the British security forces and Jewish self-defense like that of the Hagana was illegal.<BR/><BR/>The fact is that the rulers of the Palestinians, both FATAH in Judea/Samaria and HAMAS in Gaza have NO INTEREST in setting up a state. They are all living off handouts given to them by the EU and US (in the case of FATAH) and the Iranians and other supporters of Islamic extremism (such as Saudi Arabia) for the HAMAS. They are happy, they are enriching themselves, they couldn't care less what is happening to their population and the "lack of rights" which the "progressives" are always moaning about.<BR/>Benveniste is also worried about the "economic imbalance" between the Palestinains and Israel. Well, where in the world is their true "economic equality". All the Arab countries that aren't blessed with oil are poor. Arabs have a poor educational infrastructure, they don't encourage women to study and to work, their legal system and civil society is weighted to protecting clan interests, the judicial systems are corrupt, etc, so how can you expect them to keep up economically with Israel? If you give them more handouts, it just means more is siphoned into the Swiss bank accounts of those who get their hands on the aid money.<BR/><BR/>Foisting Arafat on the Palestinian ensured that there will never be a Palestinan state, but even if Peres and Rabin hadn't, the overcoming structural defects of Palestinian society would have proven to be a major hurdle, however, no one even made an attempt. Peres and Rabin smelled the Nobel Peace Prize, they decided the easiest thing is to cut a deal with the terrorist (someone I have a sneaking suspicion they felt a certain sense of identification with) and to hell with both the Israeli and Palestinian populations who have both paid a heavy price for that criminal Oslo Agreement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com